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Forza 4 Discussion
Topic Started: Apr 20 2011, 08:11:20 PM (118,305 Views)
BBULL89
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Some more interviews with Dan Greenawalt.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2011/sep/06/forza-4-interview

http://www.xbox360achievements.org/news/news-9425-Gamescom-2011--Forza-4-Interview-%E2%80%93-Dan-Greenawalt-Talks-Cars.html

Here are some highlights:

Is Forza 4 Pushing the 360 to its limits?

Quote:
 
For this version, we hired a guy from Pixar, and we brought in some contract staff from Hollywood to work out how we should do the lighting, so even with the same amount of horsepower, depending on how you approach development, you can get wildly different results.

The biggest thing is, we share stuff between different development teams. We talk with Epic, we talk with Lionhead, we talk with Rare, and when ever any of us learns a new optimisation, a new way of packing those boxes, it spreads throughout the industry. So we've benefited from the last two years of development since Forza 3 – even titles such as Gears [of War] 3 have helped.


What's your relationship like with manufacturers? I mean, I understand the marketing opportunities that Forza must represent to them, but do they appreciate the design?

Quote:
 
For the first time, I would say yes – and it's because of Autovista. Honestly, that's the first time they've said "this is crazy!". They want to show it to their board of directors. The idea of seeing the car on a giant projector and being able to walk around it via Kinect, that has definitely got different departments within these companies interested.

If you think about it, these are multinational companies and so generally most of us in the video game space deal with the licensing organisation. They have marketing organisations, they have design and racing organisations – and those groups don't necessarily talk to each other all the time, just like in any corporation. So for the first time, with Autovista, we reached the higher levels – the boards, the chief executives – we've got them thinking, "this has huge potential".

All of a sudden, we're getting calls from manufacturers saying "hey, we want to talk to you about this" and we'll say, "well, you know, we've already spoken – we talked to your licensing guys. They're in the same building as you!"


How are car performance determined?

Quote:
 
Well first up, all the manufacturer data we get, we mostly throw away! This is because we're either getting it from a licensing agent or a marketing agent, we're not getting it from the engineer who knows the real data. So we research cars – we actually go find out what it really does. We look at magazines such as Road and Track and Car and Driver, and we see what their test results are.

And we often notice that their test results are different. A manufacturer may say, this car does 0-60 in 4.3 seconds, but Car and Driver says 4.6, Top Gear may say 4.5, so you can't really trust any of that. We look at the simulation output and ask if we're getting the same range as those figures. And we have actually found issues in cars, we've called up the original manufacturer of the suspension, rather than calling up, say, BMW about the suspension. We might call KAW or H&R depending on who actually provided the springs, especially with older cars. We'll actually find out the real gear rations from the maker. We put all that stuff in and the car might understeer, it might oversteer, we've found some cars that just don't drive very well in the simulation. We don't fix it because that's how it really is.


Have you done much work on Forza 4's damage modelling?

Quote:
 
There has been work done to the damage model, but there is a luxury when you only do 100 cars in a game. When you only have 100 cars and less cars on track, you can actually have each car do a lot of crazy things. With hundreds and hundreds of cars, we have done improvements, so the damage is more localised, there are parts moving around, the textures for damage look better, so there are visible improvements.


Are you concerned that not having weather effects and so on might be holding Forza back somewhat? Is it something that you're planning for the future or is it too difficult to apply with the level of visual fidelity?

Quote:
 
It's not too difficult, but there's a reason that the features we're doing, nobody's doing. Because they're extremely difficult. The issue is, what is [weather] really adding to the gameplay, whereas things like Autovista, things like 16-player multiplayer, and our real hope was to add more to the overall gameplay. I'm not saying one feature is good or bad or what have you, but we're basically just hedging our bets with what we think is going to add to the gameplay the most. There are always more features to be done and there always will be.

Our goal is to get more people really excited about cars, so we add features to stoke that car passion and for me the investment always happen in physics. So there are superficial things you can do and there are real physical things you can do, like physics with the tyres, which is far beyond what anyone is doing. That what was important to me, because it changes the gameplay radically.

Now we did add alternate times of day, because it makes the tracks look different, but it's just not a huge feature to us, because we've got much bigger features elsewhere.


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hammer fhb
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BBULL89
Sep 6 2011, 07:36:27 PM
Quote:
 
It's not too difficult, but there's a reason that the features we're doing, nobody's doing. Because they're extremely difficult. The issue is, what is [weather] really adding to the gameplay, whereas things like Autovista, things like 16-player multiplayer, and our real hope was to add more to the overall gameplay.


He obviously knows nothing about racing...
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BBULL89
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Nope sounds like he wants to make a game more than a simulation.
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BlackRuckus05
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Great... They're actually thinking that Gran Turismo is a pure simulation -_-

I also agree that they don't really seem to care alot about the actual racing... They're always talking about cars and cars and cars but never about racing...
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hammer fhb
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I'm increasingly beginning to think Dan Greenawalt just gets horny over cars too much...

Let's be honest. We don't go on Forza on a regular basis and think something like: "I want to drive a Lamborghini Reventon and feel the exciting vibes of the engine through every twist, bump and curve."

I just wanna race in racing cars...
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V12 Matti Dude
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Dan Greenawalt really does have no clue. It's called Forza Motorsport, it should be all about motorsport. Yes being able to paint, take photos, look at cars in great detail is cool, but these features shouldn't be replacing things which could make the racing better. It seems that as soon as Forza 2 was released they saw this massive community build up around the fact that cars could be painted and customised. But they were painted because people didn't want to race with a bland looking car, not because they love painting so much. I never expected weather to be in the game because I thought the xbox couldn't handle it. But the fact that Turn 10 could have implemented it but decided not to because they didn't feel it was important enough has annoyed me.
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BlackRuckus05
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I have to say it's really annoying when you see what they are gonna do with F1 2011, all these nice RACING features...

...
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BBULL89
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See I know what Turn 10 are doing. They are trying hard to "Gran Turismo 5-proof." See What they want to do is make a game that the "casual" gamer will want to keep in their collection. See GT 5 sold alot of copies then the causal gamer traded it back in a month later because of the lack of interesting content. Turn 10 has said this before and will say it again: They already have the sale of 95% of the hardcore fanbase. That may make people mad and angry but thats why they only focus on the "Painting", the "photography," and the interactive portions of the game in interviews and videos. They are trying to sale to the causal gamer.

If the game was only about Motorsport we would end up with Gran Turismo 5 and we will all be angry.
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hammer fhb
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Meh, I may end up leaving this game, there is so much more coming out which is more promising...
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Hug My Toad
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bye bye hammer, enjoy your anime.

Career Starts: 16

2012 GT-AM Trophy

2014 Races:
Mugello

Ricky- "My throat is trolling me. Its like saying cool cough bro."

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SoloRedDevil
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Hug My Toad
Sep 7 2011, 12:33:38 AM
bye bye hammer, enjoy your anime.
This makes no sense? :Z
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ablougabla
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I personally look forward to season 4 FLMS on one of the new tracks. Seems everyone is picking with forza 4, but turn 10 hasn't even revealed all of the features... we haven't even played it yet.
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Velox Midget
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I may have to dust off Grid, at least the devs for Grid understood the "experience" side of the game that Dan wanks on about. There was TOD in there, sure the physics were lol-worthy but they understood many of the things that make a racing game good. If Turn10 care only about the "experience" why not put damn TOD etc in? How the hell is Autovista going to make a better game? Seriously, what the hell is with their obsession with that bloody Autovista? Yes the physics will be MASSIVELY improved (which is what will make me buy the game) and there are some incredible cars in the game, however, Turn10 have lost sight of what people want and what matters. The fact that they could have integrated new things in but didn't really riles me, that Autovista is more important to them that things which add to the racing experience is total poo-poo. Therein lies the problem, they've lost sight of what matters.

I'm not just a grumpy whiner, I am looking forward to many aspects of Forza4, but there are some massive negatives too
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R.I.P. Melissa "Miss-C" Avison.


"I just jumped in my laundry basket like a cat.
Because it was warm.
My brother gave me a cat name.
It's 'hotdog." - Sting

FLMS Petit Le Mans 2012 - 2nd GTE-Pro

2013 TORA TEC Sebring 12Hours 2nd GT
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Y0SSARIANUK
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BBULL89
Sep 6 2011, 07:36:27 PM

Are you concerned that not having weather effects and so on might be holding Forza back somewhat? Is it something that you're planning for the future or is it too difficult to apply with the level of visual fidelity?

Quote:
 
It's not too difficult, but there's a reason that the features we're doing, nobody's doing. Because they're extremely difficult. The issue is, what is [weather] really adding to the gameplay, whereas things like Autovista, things like 16-player multiplayer, and our real hope was to add more to the overall gameplay. I'm not saying one feature is good or bad or what have you, but we're basically just hedging our bets with what we think is going to add to the gameplay the most. There are always more features to be done and there always will be.

Our goal is to get more people really excited about cars, so we add features to stoke that car passion and for me the investment always happen in physics. So there are superficial things you can do and there are real physical things you can do, like physics with the tyres, which is far beyond what anyone is doing. That what was important to me, because it changes the gameplay radically.

Now we did add alternate times of day, because it makes the tracks look different, but it's just not a huge feature to us, because we've got much bigger features elsewhere.


That's hilariously stupid.

Weather doesn't add to gameplay, but being able to walk around a virtual car does? What little faith I had has now been lost. I'll buy it anyway, but at least I will have no expectations.



BlackRuckus05
Sep 6 2011, 09:37:17 PM
I have to say it's really annoying when you see what they are gonna do with F1 2011, all these nice RACING features...

...
F1 2011 will be epic <3
Edited by ShiftyF1, Sep 7 2011, 03:17:34 PM.
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"And when you die the only kingdom you'll see is 2 foot wide and 6 foot deep"

foREVer

"The success becomes the sage. Scientists counsel on civil liberty; comedians and actresses lead political rallies; athletes tell us what brand of cigarettes to smoke." - Robert Leckie, A Helmet For My Pillow

'False is the vaunt of the victor,
Empty our living pride.
For those who fell there is no hell -
Not for the brave who died.'

- The Battle of Tenaru, August 21, 1942 - Robert Leckie


'Senna não morreu, porque os deuses não morrem'
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SoloRedDevil
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Midgetexpress
Sep 7 2011, 03:18:00 AM
I may have to dust off Grid, at least the devs for Grid understood the "experience" side of the game that Dan wanks on about. There was TOD in there, sure the physics were lol-worthy but they understood many of the things that make a racing game good. If Turn10 care only about the "experience" why not put damn TOD etc in? How the hell is Autovista going to make a better game? Seriously, what the hell is with their obsession with that bloody Autovista? Yes the physics will be MASSIVELY improved (which is what will make me buy the game) and there are some incredible cars in the game, however, Turn10 have lost sight of what people want and what matters. The fact that they could have integrated new things in but didn't really riles me, that Autovista is more important to them that things which add to the racing experience is total poo-poo. Therein lies the problem, they've lost sight of what matters.

I'm not just a grumpy whiner, I am looking forward to many aspects of Forza4, but there are some massive negatives too
Turn 10 are aiming at casual users as well who "love cars" haha so autovista maybe good for them! But yeah I would have liked weather :'(

The game hasn't come out yet though so we shouldn't judge just yet. ;)
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ablougabla
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Good physics and weather dont come easy apparently. Remember we're running on six year old software LOL ***hardware
Edited by ablougabla, Sep 7 2011, 09:24:53 PM.
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Velox Midget
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Hey I'm not saying it won't be a fantastically polished, fun, damn fine game.
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R.I.P. Melissa "Miss-C" Avison.


"I just jumped in my laundry basket like a cat.
Because it was warm.
My brother gave me a cat name.
It's 'hotdog." - Sting

FLMS Petit Le Mans 2012 - 2nd GTE-Pro

2013 TORA TEC Sebring 12Hours 2nd GT
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SoloRedDevil
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ablougabla
Sep 7 2011, 11:18:54 AM
Good physics and weather dont come easy apparently. Remember we're running on six year old software LOL
Good point ablo! This is why Microsoft are planning the Xbox 720! (I think it's called)
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Velox Midget
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But 1080 is all the rage with kids these days yo :|
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R.I.P. Melissa "Miss-C" Avison.


"I just jumped in my laundry basket like a cat.
Because it was warm.
My brother gave me a cat name.
It's 'hotdog." - Sting

FLMS Petit Le Mans 2012 - 2nd GTE-Pro

2013 TORA TEC Sebring 12Hours 2nd GT
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Y0SSARIANUK
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ablougabla
Sep 7 2011, 11:18:54 AM
Good physics and weather dont come easy apparently. Remember we're running on six year old software LOL
But it is easily possibly if they stopped going for 60FPS - which is unnescessary.
Posted Image

"And when you die the only kingdom you'll see is 2 foot wide and 6 foot deep"

foREVer

"The success becomes the sage. Scientists counsel on civil liberty; comedians and actresses lead political rallies; athletes tell us what brand of cigarettes to smoke." - Robert Leckie, A Helmet For My Pillow

'False is the vaunt of the victor,
Empty our living pride.
For those who fell there is no hell -
Not for the brave who died.'

- The Battle of Tenaru, August 21, 1942 - Robert Leckie


'Senna não morreu, porque os deuses não morrem'
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